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    • Working between Final Cut and After Effects for...
      Thread posted May 15 by Dmitri Rodriguez
      2656 Views, 11 Comments
      Title:
      Working between Final Cut and After Effects for cut-out animation
      Content:

      Hi,

      I had a question related to working between Final Cut Pro and After Effects to create cut-out animation. I'm a total beginner to AE and I've never done animation before, although I am familiar with Final Cut Pro. But I'm confused about how to work between these programs. I understand, from doing the After Effects tutorials and such, that AE is not really designed as an editing program. I read you need to use non-linear editing software like FCP to put your sequences together and such. That's where I start to get confused and I would greatly appreciate any guidance on the following issues:

      -I'm planning to use layered Illustrator and Photoshop files, which I'll animate in AE. My first question is how to order my work, technically speaking. Let's say I create those files in Illustrator or Photoshop. Then what? I import them into FCP, put a sequence together, then export them in some format into AE for animating. What format? Or do I first bring those layered Illustrator of Photoshop files into AE and animate them, then bring them into FCP and put a sequence together?

      -What's the best ways to get the footage/files in and out of these programs? What format should one use?

      If anyone can tell me the most sensible workflow here, and basically how to do this, I would really appreciate it. I'm basically confused about this whole process, specifically how to import and export these files in and out of these programs while retaining the layer info, etc., you need to do the work; the most sensible sequence for the work, etc. 

      Much appreciated,

      Dmitri

       

    Comments

    • To be honest, it depends on what you are doing with the Photoshop and Illustrator assets. If you are doing "pan and scan" type moves, I've always imported them in AE and moved them around there.

      I typically deal with still assets in AE by timing and animating them to the time, finally exporting it via Quicktime Animation to the editing system.

        -Rob

      • Thanks so much, Rob. That's very helpful. I'm still working out my approach here, so I'm not sure yet the answer to your "pan and scan" possibility. What does that mean exactly? Is that like using AE's camera features to simulate camera movement? Like I just responded to Elaine, my plan is to create cut-out animation in the style of Terry Gilliam or South Park. And right now I'm just experimenting with simple things like a stick figure walking or having a conversation with another stick figure. So I don't know yet exactly what paths I will follow.

        I will definitely take your advice about exporting via Quicktime animation, which is a big help. The only other question that's occurring to me came up when I just tried to do this. I'm getting a warning from AE saying that exporting via Quicktime animation is "not the preferred method. Render Queue is preferred." Should I pay attention to this warning? 

        Thanks very much again for taking the time.

        Neil (just so there's no confusion, Dmitri is my pseudonym because Neil was apparently taken)

         

    • Hi Dmitri,

      To really give you a good answer, we'd need to know more about what you are trying to do.

      - while AE is not considered an editor, if what you are trying to create is a complete animation, effect, or something similar that is a specialty of AE, there would not be any reason to bring the completed file into FCP. All you would need to do is import your Photoshop and/or Illustrator assets into AE, and then create. You can render directly from AE to a variety of different formats - from web quality to film. In this scenario your workflow would be Illustrator/Photoshop > After Effects > final format (ie QuickTime, FLV, etc...)

      - on the other hand, if you were planning to use AE to add effects, color correct, overlay animation, etc with video footage you have, you would first edit your footage in FCP, export as a QT, and then import into After Effects. So your workflow would be FCP > QT > AE

      - finally (although there are a ton of different possible scenarios), if you doing title design or end credits for a movie in AE, you could completely create these in AE, and then just export as a QT and bring into FCP to create your final piece.

      Let me know if this answers your questions...

      Remember - it's fun to play with After Effects! Experiement - If you are familiar with Photoshop, think of it as PS with the added feature of motion ;)

      -elaine

      • Hi Elaine,

        I really appreciate your detailed, thorough response here. You really explained things well, and laid out all the possibilities. To answer your question, what I'm trying to do is create cut-out animation in the style of South Park or Terry Gilliam of Monty Python. I'm still working out my approach, but from playing around with the programs in the Adobe's Creative Suite 4 (which I recently purchased), my plan was to start by creating layered files in Illustrator, for example, like a simple stick figure.  From there, I've been importing those files into AE, and creating some simple animations like the stick figure walking.

        However, I'd start to run into problems, probably because of my newness to AE, when I tried to do things like edit together a little sequence like the person walking and reacting to things or people, which were separate files I also created in Illustrator. That's when I read in my tutorial book that AE is not ideal for editing sequences together and such, which would be better in a program like Final Cut. Then I started having questions about the best order for my workflow, which you and Rob (the other kind soul who responded to my post) did a great job of answering.

        So at this point, my plan is to go from Illustrator or Photoshop to AE, then create the animations and export them via Quicktime animation to FCP. The only question that is occurring to me came up when I just tried to do this. I'm getting a warning from AE saying that exporting via Quicktime animation is "not the preferred method. Render Queue is preferred." I'm going to ask Rob this, too, but I wanted to ask you if I should I pay attention to this warning? 

        Thanks so much again for your responses here. You were a big help!

        Neil 

    • Hi Neil,

      Your approach sounds like it is in the right direction - but also from what you are trying to achieve, it sounds like it could be completely done in After Effects - without using FCP. For transitions in AE, you can make pre-comps for each 'scene' and apply a transition - which is similar to what you would be doing in AE. What I would recommend doing (since you're already comfortable in FCP, but wanting to learn more AE), is to try to push yourself to create it completely in AE as a way to learn the software.

      So when comparing to how it is done in FCP, instead of laying out multiple clips, and adding a transition between each one (in FCP), you would make multiple pre-comps, and then add each of the pre-comps individually to the timeline, and then add transitions between the pre-comps, similar to how you can in FCP. There's no right-clicking to add transitions in AE. The easiest way to add cross-disolve transitions is to select the pre-comps in the timeline in the order you want them to transition, then go to Animation > Keyframe Assistant > Sequence Layers. In the pop-up window, set the lenght of time for the transition, and select Dissolve Front Layer. This actually works very well to set numerous transitions - all at the same time (assuming they are all the same transition).

      Are you an experienced animator? If anything, you may want to consider combining Flash with After Effects to achieve your final results. Animating with Flash can be easer, as I find it simplier to create character packs and then manipulate them. Then, you could bring this in to AE to add backgrounds, 3D environments, etc. From there, you can export to your final format (ie web, video, film).

      -elaine

    • If you are particularly interested in that Terry Gilliam style of things, one animation recently done you might find inspiring (I know I did) was the closing credits to Lemony Snicket the movie. I would highly recommend looking into the "puppet" tool in After Effects, I've used it to great effect in creating organic motion. Like Elaine mentioned above, this kind of sequencing is what After Effects is made for.

      I think the book you are reading might be making an overly generalized statement on AE's behalf although the term "sequencing" also applies to editing video source together quickly. You could do that in AE but it is certainly not optimized for it. I would suggest this workflow perhaps:

      1) Animate your character in After Effects using the various tools (including loading image sequences).

      2) Make sure the sequences you intend on applying transitions to are long enough to apply them. For example, you have a walk sequence for 8 seconds and want to do a cross dissolve at the end that would last approximately 2 seconds. That would mean that the animation you create needs to be 10 (8+2) seconds long.

      3) Take all your individual animations, output it to Quicktime and load them into Final Cut to create your complete piece. This way AE becomes the creator of the animation and FC Pro becomes the finishing tool.

      You mentioned earlier about the AE Error regarding quicktime output "not the preferred method. Render Queue is preferred." This sounds like you are trying to export the sequence using the "File > Export" method.

      While this is certainly one way to get things done, AE prefers to use the Render Queue to create output files. It actually has no problems creating Quicktime files as long as they are created from the Render Queue. I would recommend looking into the Render Queue since among many other things, it allows you to have better control over Alpha channel information (in case you are superimposing something over a background).

      I hope I didn't confuse the heck out of you :)

        -Rob

      • This is great stuff, Rob. Thanks so much, especially for that workflow suggestion and the explanation of the Render Queue. Both are very helpful! I will check out those Lemony Snicket credits, too, and will certainly play around with the puppet tool. I'm actually much less confused now than I was before!

        Anyway, this dialogue is very helpful, and I hope when I get more up to speed on the software, that I can return the favor.

        Take care and thanks again,

        Neil

         

    • I agree with Rob - if you want to be inspired by amazing animation, take a look at Jamie Caliri's closing sequence for Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events. Jamie is an amazing director, specializing in stop motion. His creations are defiitely works of art.

      Jamie spoke at motion last year, and will be back to speak at motion09 this year. (www.motionconference.com). We currently have one of his recent works that he created for United Airlines entitled 'Heart' on the home page of the motion website.

      So, bottomline - there's a wide variety of ways to achieve what you are trying to create, and numerous software options available to create with. Since you are new to After Effects, I'd use it as an opportunity to explore how you can push it.

      Good luck! Sounds like fun...

      -elaine

      • Thank you Elaine! I hope to keep in touch!

        Neil

    • Hey guys,  I'm new to this After Effects stuff, so I need some beginners help.  I imported my timelines from FCP using XML--that took some doing.  I don't know how to do the simplest of effects, so the only way I know how to do a dissolve is to use opacity (I do have other stuff going on in the layers).  On most of my timelines, the dissolves work as expected.  On one, with no perceptible different settings, the dissolve goes into a dither pattern.  Its like a miniature puzzle wipe instead of a dissolve.  These are all in the same project.  I can't see any difference in any settings between the ones that work and this one that doesn't.

    • Hi...

      Can you start a new thread with your post - otherwise it will get burried in this other thread, and it won't be likely to get a lot of response. So please post again. Go to <http://groups.adobe.com/resources/d9b30faea3/posts> and click the link for new thread on the right.

      thanks!

      elaine